In all the coutries i know reasonnably well, the waif ideal
has been strongly propelled. However, it is still
minoritarian all around here. And i am talking not only
about my home turf (central-southeastern Europe, namely
Austria and surrounding Chec Republic, Slovakia, Hungary,
Slovenia, Italy) plus southwestern (Spain).

Let’s see: At times, i like talking to others about clichés
related to gender issues, in order to disguise common
stereotypes as common mistakes. My strongest point is that
none of the friends i asked, ever stated he or she found
skinny women attractive. All of the rather preferred a more
solid, if not athletic, body type — be it heterosexual men
talking about women or lesbian women about others they feel
attracted to. (i didn’t talk to homosexual male “testees”,
though.) Even more so in arabic countries in Middle East
and Morocco, where i had the opportunity to live with locals
for some time: Their ideal is still more oriented towards
the strong and fertile body, as you indicated (“markers of
health and fertility”).

So let’s resume: All agree they do not really like to look
at waif bodies. Not look _at_. Still, most want to look
_like_ these — not totally, though. It seems to me we all
(including myself, in the past) aspire to getting somewhat
closer to this extreme: Not as skinny as these models, but
still “reduce fat, a bit”.

Now, one might raise the question, where does this oxymoron
come from? How come we want to be skinnier ourselves, but
don’t want the others to? “The media, the ideals imposed on
us”, as my academic friends reckon, who still succumb to the
the same phenomenon. This is part of the answer, probably.
Yet, we obviously look with different eyes, gauge ourselves
with different weights than the others. What is good for
others, is “too much fat” on our own body, in our own
autoperception.

Traditionally, however, this kind of self-consciousness used
to be more typically “feminine”: It has been less the case
for men, though they are making (questionable) “progress”
towards the same (questioned) waif ideal. But there is still
a difference in numbers (though dimishing): There are still
more overweigth men content with their eating habits than
women.

i would suggest: Let’s not starve to death, though we have
come to believe that this is “healthy”!

I agree completely. As I mentioned above, I tend to like athletes so I’m a bit biased. When I look at models I see frail out of shape people.

BEE –

Excellent points. I’ve read social psych studies that pointed this out. Men tend to look at women. Women also tend to look at other women and compare themselves. The competition has as much to do with their status in the eyes of other women as it does attracting men. I’ve heard many women acknowledge that they know many guys aren’t into the “waif with cleavage” look, but that doesn’t change that they feel like they should strive for it. < ugh >

I’ve also noticed that the people who seem the most hostile to my girlfriend and I at the gym are the cardio bunnies. The guys are a little confused at first, but are generally pretty encouraging when they see her lifting like she means it. She gets the eye daggers from the girls on the treadmills whenever though.

With regard to Maxim and Playboy, I honestly never got it – I loath the silicon “water balloon” look, which seems to be what they have to offer.

Although something Kelly said hit a point. I’ve had guy friends that constantly compliment girls on their curves, but they also subscribe to magazines like Playboy (as does my BF) and Maxim and seem to really like some celebrities that are really skinny (“Oh if I could just run into Jessica Alba on the street…”).

The other point that I don’t really think this has hit- Women are their own worst critics, and judge each other to the extreme. If WE were more compassionate on our fellow woman it would empower more I think, and men would follow as it seems confidence is one of the sexiest things a woman can display.

he was also reading a maxim at the time, so take it for what its worth.

Kelly Turner
http://www.everygymsnightmare.com

I agree completely. You weren’t too disjointed at all. I really get upset and the industry (and society in general) that push such an unhealthy and unrealistic image of beauty on women. I think this is compounded by the really screwed up message our society send to women – that being attractive is what’s important, not who they are or what they’re capable of.

BEE -

Hopefully she got over it after high school? I’ll fully admit to having my “sheep” stage in my teens and early twenties – where my training focused on appearance and not function, and things like the brand of my clothes seemed so important. I grew out of it though, and look back on that period of my life now with a kind of amused embarrassment. At least until time travel is developed – then I full intend to go back in time and pimp slap my former self.

sorrybut -

You’re right that I could have picked more emaciated models to use. I came by these two since a women on another site listed them as her examples. It could be worse I suppose…

Have you seen many pictures of these people without the retouching, lighting and makeup?

I much prefer a stronger woman, as I’ve always been a bit muscular and definitely stalkier than most of the girls in my grade, but now that makes me a better, stronger lifter – and even though I don’t feel as comfortable wearing some of today’s fashion on the streets of New York, because I’m not a waif, I have to say it’s a small price to pay for the way I feel, the way my skin looks and the energy I have (and thank god my boyfriend loves – and is verbal about – a bit of junk… in the trunk. He’s done wonders for my self-esteem. Men- let your ladies know you love curves!).

- Dave