A girl who wants to look like a model < sigh >

Posted on | January 15, 2009 |

What is attractive?

This blog keeps tending toward issues revolving around women and training. I sometimes think I need to get off my soapbox, or at least find other things to ramble on about. Not quite yet though. In any case I suppose this is only tangentially related to training, more about aesthetics.

I have a few serious questions for my readers though. It’s more about what people consider attractive in women. Before going any further, I’m well aware that a number of physical traits and generally considered attractive across cultures. Namely - skin clarity, symmetry and a certain waist to hip ratio. This isn’t what I’m talking about though. I’m talking about particular examples of “beauty”.

I need to throw the disclaimer out there right now that I’m personally interested in training for performance, so this isn’t really my area of expertise. I tend to view aesthetic benefits as just an unintended bonus, not the goal of, training. I realize a lot of people don’t share this viewpoint though.

The reason I ask is that I recently had a discussion on another site with a girl who claimed “to bulk up too easily”. I was skeptical of this as it’s pretty uncommon. I thought it was possible this was someone who was just unhappy with her body type (wide shoulders perhaps or the like) and the fact that she wasn’t built like a slender waif. It turns out there was more to it though. This women described herself as quite slim, and having pretty low bodyfat (~18%). The also indicated that she was around 5′4″ and 112lbs and that she ran track in college. So while I don’t know what this woman looks like, the picture she paints is of someone fairly lean and well (but not overly) muscled. Then she went on to say her aesthetic idea was along the lines of Miranda Kerr or Marisa Miller as opposed to Marion Jones.

This is where things got interesting for me. Personally I don’t think Marion Jones looks too bad, though she is a little overly muscled for my taste. However, it’s important to remember that she was an Olympic athlete, and was busted using steroids. I.e. she is anything but a typical female. She was a genetically gifted, and chemically enhanced woman, who trained obsessively.

A few pictures of Marion Jones for your reference:

First, doing her sport

Second, from a Maxim shoot, so heavily airbrushed and photoshopped. Interesting how much less muscular she looks here isn’t it?

Ok, now here are the women that were mentioned by the girl I mentioned as her ideals:

Miranda Kerr and Marissa Miller

OK, does anyone actually think the latter two are attractive? Am I really this out of touch with what most people are into? With both of the above women, I see insanely thin people with no body (besides cleavage) and no muscle definition.

They’re nearly certainly what I’d call “skinny fat” I.e they’re overly thin, but the have no muscle to them and are still a bit soft. I’m sure this would be more apparent if the blemishes were not airbrushed out. The both have arms that look like skin over bones…. Again, maybe my own taste is different because I like athletes but in the model look I see frail looking women here, not something to aspire toward.

The idea of woman wanting to look like this kind of freaks me out. First, neither of these women are going to look anything like this when the makeup, composition, lighting and digital enhancement are removed. It’s a nearly impossible ideal – one that does not exist for most people (these women don’t really look like that). I really don’t get why woman want to look like they’re starving though. I’d also argue that this isn’t a matter of “to each their own” since attempting to attain the look of the women above is unhealthy and destructive. By contrast, most of features we have evolved to find attractive are markers of health and fertility.

I will concede that if you really, truly sincerely want to look like this, you shouldn’t lift heavy, or at all for that matter. You should adopt a massive caloric deficit, do hours of plodding cardio and consider purging up your food. You should also give up any idea you have about feeling good either in the physical sense, or feeling good about yourself. In the meanwhile eat a meal and get into therapy for body image disorders and seriously revaluate why on earth you have this ideal.

I should also point out that I don’t mean to single out these two models – I’d never heard of either of them before this conversation, and don’t know the first thing about them – it’s more what they represent that gets to me.
I feel compelled to provide a few examples, and non-airbrushed pictures of what I would consider healthy female athletes with levels of development one could expect to see from hard training. I’m NOT attempting to pick and elevate “hot female athletes” or any of that nonsense – just find examples of serious female athletes with a more realistic (and IMO more aesthetic) body type.

Any of the women in the linked video from the 2008 Crossfit games (it’s a little slow to load).

Marilous Dozois-Prevost, an Olympic Lifter from Canada.

You’ll notice that most of these women are are not huge, but none look like they are on the fast track for an emergency meal intervention either. Both examples are also people who train seriously, for performance and not aesthetics.

I want to hear from people on this one. Does anyone actually prefer the look of models to serious athletes? I’d kind if assumed that no one took that particular aesthetic seriously anymore… it appears I’ve been being naïve.

I’m going to take a deep breath now, and not write anything else about woman and training, lest this site become one dimensional.

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Comments

12 Responses to “A girl who wants to look like a model < sigh >”

LOLfitness
January 15th, 2009 @ 8:40 pm

What would make you think no one takes that particular aesthetic seriously any more?
cmason
January 15th, 2009 @ 9:03 pm

My overly “clever” answer would be “optimism”. However, I feel like this deserves a non-flippant response so I’m going to take a crack at it.

I’m pretty disconnected from mainstream pop culture, but I have noticed that in recent years, there have been a number of attractive women that are not waifs in the public eye. It had seemed to me that the standard of beauty people were pushing was moving (ever so slightly) toward women that actually have bodies. I feel, very strongly that this is a good thing.

Most of the women I talk to seem to be pretty grossed out by that model image as well, often with a side of anger that many of them spent years trying to adhere to standard that they (nor nearly anyone else) was built for. Most of the men I know also seem to prefer the look of serious athletes to girls that look like a strong wind could snap them in half. When I say “athletes” I mean just that, not fitness girls, or female bodybuilders or any of the like - which is why I provided my own examples.

I just took a look at your blog, and got down to where you consider “The perfect physique for a guy: muscular and incredibly lean. No invisible water jugs.” I agree with your taste, and find the parallel to that to be attractive in women. I had the impression that most men, who weren’t brainwashed by beer ads featuring silicon enhanced anorexics felt the same way.

Where the naiveté comes in is that I may be getting the “ivory tower” syndrome at bit. Most of my friends are athletes of some manner or the other, and I’m a self admitted geek - so there’s probably a bit of a bias in what I’m exposed to. That’s part of why I wrote this piece. It was in part to take an informal polling of other people’s taste. On the plus, if someone reads this, and actually takes a look in the mirror and realizes they’ve been wasting their time trying to look like a manufactured image, instead of themself it’ll be time well spent.
Amy
January 17th, 2009 @ 5:43 pm

I’m decidedly more attracted to men, but when I see a woman that I want to look like, she exhibits the physical traits of an athletic woman, a strong woman, not the waif look. To me, the waifish look helpless, whereas the athletic women look independent and look like they can handle themselves. I am pretty disconnected from mainstream pop culture myself, but the Hollywood women I deem to be attractive examples are the ones who are very built and muscular, as opposed to the ones who are what I like to call “skinny-fat.”
David at Animal-Kingdom-Workouts
February 3rd, 2009 @ 6:50 pm

I always MUCH prefer the look of a strong, athletic woman to the supermodel waifs you mention. Most guys I know think the same thing. The Olympic weight lifter you showed looks fantastic. I also love the physiques that Olympic gymnasts and wrestler’s posses. A woman who exercises and is strong is always going to look FANTASTIC (so long as she doesn’t take steroids, like a lot of bodybuilders do). How the “skinny-fat” look became the ideal, I’ll never know. What’s more, if you ever see one of these girls up close and in real life, they look positively sickly.

- Dave
john
February 3rd, 2009 @ 7:02 pm

So let me start by saying my image of beauty is well summed up in a posting on the hypoxia gym blog from a crossfit affiliate.
http://hypoxiagym.com/?p=1492
So I’m a male and I associate with a lot of men, and I have to say there are (unfortunately) a lot of men who see the models you posted as attractive. I have a roommate who wouldn’t believe me when I said I didn’t find marissa miller attractive, I mean really refused to believe me and said I only said it because my girlfriend was around. I also have a fair number of male acquaintances who would agree with him.
I also coach a college womens rugby team and I think a lot of the women I’ve met in this capacity would idealistically tell you the same thing about the body they find attractive. I think that in a realistic way I see them spending their days trying to eat less calories not more healthy, doing plodding cardio instead of getting fit, reading cosmo and all the horrible magazines that push these body types.
I think its a big problem and the solution is critical thinking, realizing that a commercial and a magazine don’t determine our personal preferences. In America we’re all very proud that we are free, but I feel if we can’t break free from this corporate imposed aesthetic and think for ourselves we truly aren’t free. Freedom is a choice and people need to start making that choice.
Hope this wasn’t too disjointed or ridiculous for the discussion.
BEELifestyle
February 3rd, 2009 @ 7:21 pm

I coached a national championship dance team in which one of the girls wouldn’t weight train because she didn’t want arms that had muscular definition. She lost a place on the performance squad because of it - this was in high school. Amazing the lengths we go to because of an ideal.

I much prefer a stronger woman, as I’ve always been a bit muscular and definitely stalkier than most of the girls in my grade, but now that makes me a better, stronger lifter - and even though I don’t feel as comfortable wearing some of today’s fashion on the streets of New York, because I’m not a waif, I have to say it’s a small price to pay for the way I feel, the way my skin looks and the energy I have (and thank god my boyfriend loves - and is verbal about - a bit of junk… in the trunk. He’s done wonders for my self-esteem. Men- let your ladies know you love curves!).
sorrybut...
February 3rd, 2009 @ 8:48 pm

I agree that the weightlifer and the crossfit girls are attractive, and I do find athletic girls very attractive, but I still think Marissa Miller is hot. She may be slightly too skinny, but I still see some muscle definition on her body (abs, obliques) and her arms are not sticks like some really anorexic models. I think she looks great.
cmason
February 4th, 2009 @ 2:37 pm

John -

I agree completely. You weren’t too disjointed at all. I really get upset and the industry (and society in general) that push such an unhealthy and unrealistic image of beauty on women. I think this is compounded by the really screwed up message our society send to women - that being attractive is what’s important, not who they are or what they’re capable of.

BEE -

Hopefully she got over it after high school? I’ll fully admit to having my “sheep” stage in my teens and early twenties - where my training focused on appearance and not function, and things like the brand of my clothes seemed so important. I grew out of it though, and look back on that period of my life now with a kind of amused embarrassment. At least until time travel is developed - then I full intend to go back in time and pimp slap my former self.

sorrybut -

You’re right that I could have picked more emaciated models to use. I came by these two since a women on another site listed them as her examples. It could be worse I suppose…

Have you seen many pictures of these people without the retouching, lighting and makeup?
Kelly Turner
February 5th, 2009 @ 4:00 pm

so i was talking to a guy friend of mine that is super ripped. he commented on how muscle-y my arms are, and we got to talk about women and muscle. I asked him if he found it attractive when a women has muscle definition, and he said more so than someone that is “model-esque.” Not because of how it looks, but because it shows him that that woman has dedication, cares about herself and her health, and is a strong person. I thought that was awesome.

he was also reading a maxim at the time, so take it for what its worth.

Kelly Turner
http://www.everygymsnightmare.com
BEE
February 5th, 2009 @ 6:11 pm

I hope my dancer got over it- I should check up on her, something I wish I did as a coach more often…

Although something Kelly said hit a point. I’ve had guy friends that constantly compliment girls on their curves, but they also subscribe to magazines like Playboy (as does my BF) and Maxim and seem to really like some celebrities that are really skinny (”Oh if I could just run into Jessica Alba on the street…”).

The other point that I don’t really think this has hit- Women are their own worst critics, and judge each other to the extreme. If WE were more compassionate on our fellow woman it would empower more I think, and men would follow as it seems confidence is one of the sexiest things a woman can display.
cmason
February 5th, 2009 @ 7:21 pm

Kelly -

I agree completely. As I mentioned above, I tend to like athletes so I’m a bit biased. When I look at models I see frail out of shape people.

BEE -

Excellent points. I’ve read social psych studies that pointed this out. Men tend to look at women. Women also tend to look at other women and compare themselves. The competition has as much to do with their status in the eyes of other women as it does attracting men. I’ve heard many women acknowledge that they know many guys aren’t into the “waif with cleavage” look, but that doesn’t change that they feel like they should strive for it. < ugh >

I’ve also noticed that the people who seem the most hostile to my girlfriend and I at the gym are the cardio bunnies. The guys are a little confused at first, but are generally pretty encouraging when they see her lifting like she means it. She gets the eye daggers from the girls on the treadmills whenever though.

With regard to Maxim and Playboy, I honestly never got it - I loath the silicon “water balloon” look, which seems to be what they have to offer.
Mark Panzner
April 13th, 2009 @ 3:38 am

I’d like to join your debate from across the pond, old
europe. I’ve come around in some of its oldest parts, and i
feel people’s tastes on physiques (waif versus athlete) are
quite similar to what you have depicted.

In all the coutries i know reasonnably well, the waif ideal
has been strongly propelled. However, it is still
minoritarian all around here. And i am talking not only
about my home turf (central-southeastern Europe, namely
Austria and surrounding Chec Republic, Slovakia, Hungary,
Slovenia, Italy) plus southwestern (Spain).

Let’s see: At times, i like talking to others about clichés
related to gender issues, in order to disguise common
stereotypes as common mistakes. My strongest point is that
none of the friends i asked, ever stated he or she found
skinny women attractive. All of the rather preferred a more
solid, if not athletic, body type — be it heterosexual men
talking about women or lesbian women about others they feel
attracted to. (i didn’t talk to homosexual male “testees”,
though.) Even more so in arabic countries in Middle East
and Morocco, where i had the opportunity to live with locals
for some time: Their ideal is still more oriented towards
the strong and fertile body, as you indicated (”markers of
health and fertility”).

So let’s resume: All agree they do not really like to look
at waif bodies. Not look _at_. Still, most want to look
_like_ these — not totally, though. It seems to me we all
(including myself, in the past) aspire to getting somewhat
closer to this extreme: Not as skinny as these models, but
still “reduce fat, a bit”.

Now, one might raise the question, where does this oxymoron
come from? How come we want to be skinnier ourselves, but
don’t want the others to? “The media, the ideals imposed on
us”, as my academic friends reckon, who still succumb to the
the same phenomenon. This is part of the answer, probably.
Yet, we obviously look with different eyes, gauge ourselves
with different weights than the others. What is good for
others, is “too much fat” on our own body, in our own
autoperception.

Traditionally, however, this kind of self-consciousness used
to be more typically “feminine”: It has been less the case
for men, though they are making (questionable) “progress”
towards the same (questioned) waif ideal. But there is still
a difference in numbers (though dimishing): There are still
more overweigth men content with their eating habits than
women.

i would suggest: Let’s not starve to death, though we have
come to believe that this is “healthy”!